[Speaker 2] Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Today, we’re going somewhere a little different. Not your typical tourist destination.

We’re going to Nepal, but we’re going to be talking about something pretty interesting based on an article called The Forgotten Gods of Nepal by David Ways. And this is from the Longest Way Home Travel website. So have you ever walked through those ancient courtyards in Nepal and seen those shrines and statues?

[Speaker 1] Uh, yeah, I can imagine it.

[Speaker 2] Yeah, you know what I’m talking about and you kind of wonder like what are the stories behind these places?

[Speaker 1] Right, like what is all that about?

[Speaker 2] Yeah, and so that’s kind of what we’re going to look at today, you know, this whole idea of like the fading memory of these deities.

[Speaker 1] Interesting.

[Speaker 2] What it says about maybe like bigger cultural shifts and stuff like that.

[Speaker 1] Yeah, that’s a great point. You know, Nepal is often called like the land of living heritage, right? Where like temples and shrines, they’re not just roped off historical sites, you know?

[Speaker 2] Right, it’s part of daily life.

[Speaker 1] Yeah, they’re part of everyday life, exactly.

[Speaker 2] Yeah, like interwoven.

[Speaker 1] Yeah, but the thing is like for how long, you know?

[Speaker 2] Right, good point.

[Speaker 1] Because this article that you mentioned, Ways noticed something kind of unsettling, you know, especially after that big 2015 earthquake.

[Speaker 2] Oh, really?

[Speaker 1] Yeah, there’s this like decline in faith, the sense that like the gods are kind of absent.

[Speaker 2] That’s so interesting. You would think like a major event like that would almost strengthen people’s faith or something.

[Speaker 1] It’s like a paradox, isn’t it?

[Speaker 2] Totally.

[Speaker 1] But he really noticed it when he was out like mapping shrines and talking to locals. He even tells this story about these three young people near Kathmandu Durbar Square, like a really famous place. And they knew there was this shrine there and it was empty.

[Speaker 2] Oh, wow.

[Speaker 1] Like the deity had been stolen, but nobody even remembered who it was or when it had happened.

[Speaker 2] That’s crazy.

[Speaker 1] Isn’t that wild? And this is just steps away from like a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

[Speaker 2] Yeah, it’s a UNESCO site.

[Speaker 1] And it’s already lost to time.

[Speaker 2] Oh, wow.

[Speaker 1] It’s really powerful.

[Speaker 2] Yeah, it’s like how fragile cultural memory can be.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. And even the tour guides often default to like their own religious backgrounds instead of the local Newari history, you know, and they’re explaining these sites to tourists.

[Speaker 2] OK, so like if these are living traditions, as they say, right, why are they being forgotten? Like what’s going on?

[Speaker 1] Yeah, it’s a big question and it’s not like a simple answer, you know, there’s no easy answer. Waze points to a bunch of different factors. One is like the super obvious one, like lack of funding and just bureaucratic issues.

[Speaker 2] Makes sense.

[Speaker 1] It’s like nobody knows who’s responsible for these smaller shrines.

[Speaker 2] Right, like passing the buck, sort of.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. And then there’s this whole dilemma of like, what do you do with idols that are like worn out? You know, replacing them can be seen as like sacrilegious.

So they just kind of fade away. And then you’ve got theft on top of that.

[Speaker 2] Oh, right.

[Speaker 1] Which makes everything worse. Right.

[Speaker 2] Shrines are empty and there’s no way to replace them.

[Speaker 1] Exactly.

[Speaker 2] Right. But it’s not even just about like the physical objects, right?

[Speaker 1] Right. No, it’s not. It’s about the beliefs they represent.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] Waze talks about this whole thing with changing demographics, too. You know, older communities are moving out, newer residents are moving in.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] Who might have different beliefs.

[Speaker 2] Yeah, like a dilution almost.

[Speaker 1] It’s like this cultural dilution. Exactly.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. And then on top of that, it’s not even just internal shifts. Right.

He talks about like after the earthquake, all those worn aid workers came in.

[Speaker 1] Right. Huge influx.

[Speaker 2] And even though they meant well, it kind of unintentionally led some Nepali youth to be like, wait, are our traditions like outdated?

[Speaker 1] It’s a really good point.

[Speaker 2] You know?

[Speaker 1] Yeah. Because they’re seeing all these resources that the foreigners have.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] And they’re like, well, maybe our ways aren’t so good.

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] It’s complex. It’s a complex issue. And then like with the Internet, right, there’s all this misinformation.

[Speaker 2] Oh, yeah. All over the place.

[Speaker 1] Like mislabeled sites and stuff.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. Inaccurate information.

[Speaker 1] Which makes it harder to even know what’s real and what’s not.

[Speaker 2] Right. Yeah. You can’t tell what’s true anymore.

So it makes sense that that would erode understanding.

[Speaker 1] Totally. And then there’s this global trend, right, towards secularism.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] Especially among young people.

[Speaker 2] Happening everywhere.

[Speaker 1] It’s happening everywhere. Nepal’s no exception.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. So it’s like a perfect storm.

[Speaker 1] It really is.

[Speaker 2] Working against all these traditions.

[Speaker 1] Yeah.

[Speaker 2] But what about like the people who are trying to like preserve this knowledge? You know, you mentioned some researchers and photographers who are like documenting all this stuff.

[Speaker 1] They’re doing such important work, you know.

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] Think about people like Mary Slusser and Prayagraj Sharma.

[Speaker 2] OK.

[Speaker 1] Their documentation is going to become even more vital as time goes on.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. Because if the living memory fades.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. It’s all we’ll have.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. It’s like a time capsule.

[Speaker 1] It really is.

[Speaker 2] Like trying to capture these beliefs before they disappear. Yeah. So let’s talk about tourism, because like Nepal’s famous for this.

[Speaker 1] Right.

[Speaker 2] The cultural heritage. So how does all of this impact like the tourist experience? You know what I mean?

[Speaker 1] Yeah. Well, imagine you go to this like incredible temple. Right.

But there’s nobody who can tell you anything about it.

[Speaker 2] Like who the deity is or rituals or anything.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. Like you’re just looking at a beautiful building, but you don’t know the story behind it.

[Speaker 2] It’s like seeing a painting and not knowing who the artist is or like the meaning.

[Speaker 1] Right. You’re missing a whole layer of the experience.

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] And that’s what’s happening.

[Speaker 2] So you think that lack of knowledge makes those places less appealing to tourists.

[Speaker 1] Oh, absolutely. Especially the ones who are looking for like an authentic cultural experience.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. Right.

[Speaker 1] They want the real deal.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. But could this also be like an opportunity?

[Speaker 1] Yeah. That’s interesting.

[Speaker 2] Could there be a new kind of tourism that’s focused on like rediscovering these forgotten stories?

[Speaker 1] I love that idea. That’s fascinating.

[Speaker 2] You know?

[Speaker 1] Yeah. Like it could be this really immersive experience for tourists.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] And it could empower the local communities to reconnect with their own heritage.

[Speaker 2] Totally. Like turning a challenge into an opportunity. And speaking of opportunity, right?

The author David Guays, he also wrote this book called Kathmandu Valley Heritage Walks.

[Speaker 1] It’s a fantastic resource. Yeah. It’s not just like a dry guidebook.

Right. He really brings those places to life, you know?

[Speaker 2] So it’s like having a guide who’s like super passionate about it.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. He wants to share all these hidden treasures with you.

[Speaker 2] Cool. So before we move on, I want to ask the listener something.

[Speaker 1] Okay.

[Speaker 2] Think about where you live, your community. Have you seen anything similar? You know?

[Speaker 1] Like what?

[Speaker 2] Like a closed church or a monument nobody goes to. Or even just family stories that people aren’t telling anymore.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. That’s a good point. Those are all kind of the same thing, aren’t they?

[Speaker 2] Right. Like these fading traces.

[Speaker 1] It’s like a slow erosion of memory.

[Speaker 2] It makes you wonder why we forget so easily.

[Speaker 1] It really does.

[Speaker 2] Like is it just modern life? You know, we’re all so busy.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. Or is there something deeper going on?

[Speaker 2] I don’t know. But we’ll delve deeper into that after a short break.

[Speaker 1] Okay. Sounds good. It’s interesting that you bring those up.

You know those examples that you mentioned? Yeah. Like the closed church or the monument that nobody visits anymore or the family stories that nobody tells anymore?

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] Those are powerful reminders that this isn’t just happening in Nepal. Right.

[Speaker 2] It’s everywhere.

[Speaker 1] It’s happening all around us.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. It’s like we’re slowly losing all the things that connect us to our past.

[Speaker 1] It really is. And it makes you wonder why we’re so quick to forget. You know?

Is it just because life is so fast-paced now?

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] Or is there something more to it?

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] I think it’s probably a combination of things. You know?

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] The article talks about globalization and how that can lead to kind of a homogenization of culture.

[Speaker 2] Right. It’s like we’re losing all the unique stuff that makes each place special.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. And in a world where everybody’s obsessed with like the newest thing, the next big thing.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] It’s easy to forget about what came before.

[Speaker 2] You know? Yeah. And it’s like if you forget your past, you’re losing a part of yourself.

[Speaker 1] You really are. Those stories, those traditions, they tell us who we are.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. Where we come from.

[Speaker 1] Exactly.

[Speaker 2] So how do we fight this, you know, this cultural amnesia?

[Speaker 1] It’s a good question.

[Speaker 2] Like, how do we make sure these stories don’t disappear?

[Speaker 1] Well, I think it starts with recognizing their value. You know?

[Speaker 2] Okay.

[Speaker 1] Even if they seem kind of outdated or irrelevant in our modern world.

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] Those traditions, they offer us a glimpse into a different way of life, a different way of thinking.

[Speaker 2] Like with those little shrines in Nepal.

[Speaker 1] Exactly.

[Speaker 2] They might not be these huge temples.

[Speaker 1] Right.

[Speaker 2] But they represent so much history.

[Speaker 1] Centuries of belief community, a connection to something bigger than themselves.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. And if we understand those stories, we can depreciate all the different ways that people experience the world.

[Speaker 1] Absolutely. But recognizing their value is just the first step.

[Speaker 2] Okay. So what’s next?

[Speaker 1] We have to actively preserve them. You know?

[Speaker 2] Okay. What does that look like?

[Speaker 1] It means seeking out those stories, listening to the people who hold them, finding ways to document them and share them.

[Speaker 2] It could be as simple as like talking to your grandparents about their childhood.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. Or supporting your local museum. Right.

Or historical society.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. It’s like we have to take ownership of our own heritage.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. We can’t wait for somebody else to do it for us.

[Speaker 2] So going back to Nepal, those forgotten gods, you know?

[Speaker 1] Yeah.

[Speaker 2] What lessons can we learn from that and apply to our own efforts to preserve these things?

[Speaker 1] Well, one of the biggest takeaways for me is that it’s a really complex problem. It’s not just about people’s beliefs changing or globalization, you know? It’s about economic pressures, changing demographics, the influence of outside forces.

[Speaker 2] So it’s like cultural memory is a living thing.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. It’s constantly being shaped by all these different factors.

[Speaker 2] And we have to understand that if we want to preserve it.

[Speaker 1] We do. And another important lesson is the power of individual initiative. The author of this article, David Ways, he’s a great example.

His passion for documenting these traditions is inspiring other people to take action.

[Speaker 2] So we don’t have to wait for some big institution to do it.

[Speaker 1] We don’t. We can all play a role.

[Speaker 2] And it’s not like a solo mission either, right?

[Speaker 1] No. It takes collaboration.

[Speaker 2] He’s working with local communities and researchers.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. People who are dedicated to preserving Nepal’s heritage.

[Speaker 2] So we have to work together, talk to each other, build partnerships.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. If we want these stories to survive.

[Speaker 2] It makes you think about education too.

[Speaker 1] Absolutely.

[Speaker 2] Ways mentions that there aren’t a lot of opportunities to learn about cultural heritage in Nepal.

[Speaker 1] And that’s a big part of the problem, you know?

[Speaker 2] Yeah. Like if young people don’t learn about it.

[Speaker 1] Right.

[Speaker 2] They won’t value it.

[Speaker 1] They won’t. And they won’t understand it.

[Speaker 2] We need to integrate this stuff into schools.

[Speaker 1] Yes. From elementary school all the way up to university.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. So we can raise a generation that’s equipped to be the stewards of their own heritage.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. It’s about bridging that gap between the past and the present.

[Speaker 2] Right. Making sure that the stories of our ancestors continue to inform and inspire us.

[Speaker 1] I love that. And education doesn’t just happen in schools, you know? Museums, cultural centers, community events.

[Speaker 2] It’s about making it accessible to everyone.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. It’s not just something you read about in a textbook.

[Speaker 2] And we can’t forget about the power of storytelling.

[Speaker 1] Oh, storytelling is so important.

[Speaker 2] It’s how we pass down knowledge and values and beliefs.

[Speaker 1] It’s the lifeblood of cultural memory.

[Speaker 2] And now we have all these amazing tools to share stories.

[Speaker 1] We do think about oral storytelling traditions, digital platforms, social media.

[Speaker 2] Yeah, we can reach more people than ever before.

[Speaker 1] And it’s not just about sharing information. It’s about creating an emotional connection.

[Speaker 2] Right. Making people curious.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. Helping them understand the richness and diversity of human culture.

[Speaker 2] It’s like giving those forgotten stories a new life.

[Speaker 1] It really is.

[Speaker 2] And as we try to preserve all this stuff, we have to make sure that we’re hearing from diverse voices.

[Speaker 1] That’s a crucial point.

[Speaker 2] What do you mean by that?

[Speaker 1] Well, cultural heritage isn’t just one thing, you know? Right. It’s a whole bunch of different traditions and beliefs and practices.

And those things are often shaped by ethnicity, gender, social class, geography.

[Speaker 2] So we need to make sure that we’re not just focusing on the dominant narratives.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. We need to include the stories and experiences of marginalized communities.

[Speaker 2] It’s about building a more inclusive understanding of the past.

[Speaker 1] Yes. One that recognizes the contributions of everyone.

[Speaker 2] It’s like cultural heritage is a tapestry.

[Speaker 1] I love that analogy.

[Speaker 2] All these different threads woven together.

[Speaker 1] Each one adding its own unique color and texture.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. It’s beautiful.

[Speaker 1] It really is. And it reminds us that we need to approach preservation with sensitivity and respect.

[Speaker 2] And a commitment to honoring the complexities of the past.

[Speaker 1] Exactly.

[Speaker 2] You know, we’ve been talking about this on a bigger scale, but I’d love to bring it down to a more personal level. Like what does it actually feel like to encounter these like fading traces of the past?

[Speaker 1] Well, think about it. You’re standing in front of an old shrine in Nepal.

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] Or maybe it’s a neglected monument in your own town.

[Speaker 2] Right. I think a sense of wonder, but also maybe a little sadness.

[Speaker 1] Yeah.

[Speaker 2] Like knowing that this place was once so important.

[Speaker 1] Right.

[Speaker 2] And now it’s kind of slipping away.

[Speaker 1] Exactly. And it makes you want to learn more.

[Speaker 2] Yeah.

[Speaker 1] Who was this shrine dedicated to?

[Speaker 2] Right. What happened here?

[Speaker 1] It’s like finding a hidden chapter in a history book.

[Speaker 2] Oh yeah.

[Speaker 1] A glimpse into a lost world.

[Speaker 2] And maybe it makes you appreciate the present more too. It could. Like knowing how quickly things can change.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. Definitely puts things in perspective.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. Those fading idols in Nepal.

[Speaker 1] Uh-huh.

[Speaker 2] Their physical forms might be crumbling, but the stories they represent are still there.

[Speaker 1] They’re still there waiting for someone to uncover them.

[Speaker 2] But you know, we have to be careful how we approach these encounters.

[Speaker 1] Oh, absolutely.

[Speaker 2] Especially as tourists.

[Speaker 1] Yeah.

[Speaker 2] We can’t just treat these places like another photo op.

[Speaker 1] Right.

[Speaker 2] They’re sacred, you know, full of meaning for the people who live there.

[Speaker 1] Exactly.

[Speaker 2] So we have to approach them with humility.

[Speaker 1] Humility, curiosity. A willingness to learn.

[Speaker 2] Yeah. And that means supporting responsible tourism. You know, the cause actually cares about preserving these things.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. And engaging with the local community.

[Speaker 2] It’s about traveling with a purpose.

[Speaker 1] Absolutely.

[Speaker 2] Not just to see the sites, but to really connect with the place.

[Speaker 1] And that brings us back to David Waze.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] He embodies that spirit, you know?

[Speaker 2] Yeah. His book, Kathmandu Valley Heritage Walks.

[Speaker 1] Perfect example.

[Speaker 2] It’s more than just a guidebook.

[Speaker 1] It’s an invitation to explore, to discover.

[Speaker 2] To really get under the surface.

[Speaker 1] The hidden layers of Nepal’s cultural heritage.

[Speaker 2] And it shows us that we can all be ambassadors for the places that we care about.

[Speaker 1] We can.

[Speaker 2] Whether it’s a faraway country or our own hometown.

[Speaker 1] Right.

[Speaker 2] We can all help preserve those fading pieces of the past.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. It’s been a fascinating conversation.

[Speaker 2] It has. Just a cultural memory. Yeah.

And how something as simple as remembering can be so complex.

[Speaker 1] And so important.

[Speaker 2] Right.

[Speaker 1] It’s a reminder to cherish those stories, those connections to the past.

[Speaker 2] Because they really do enrich our present and shape our future.

[Speaker 1] Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[Speaker 2] So thanks for joining us, everyone, for this look at the Forgotten Gods of Nepal.

[Speaker 1] Yeah. Thanks for listening.

[Speaker 2] And for making those connections to your own experiences, it’s definitely something to keep in mind wherever our journeys take us.

[Speaker 1] Absolutely.